OMG WTF BAND PRESIDENT?

[EagleXC13]

The thing is, Lucco, I'm not "that guy obsessed with padding out his college application", like Eric and Matt do. While I might not have as much experience with Marching Band as you do, but I have a good bit of experience in the band itself. Also, I'm considered to be a Unit Captain, not Section Leader (which would be Priscilla) because Mote wanted to give me the highest title possible for the Pit. Yes, its only a title and titles don't grant their wearer instant wisdom, but I think I have the right to say that I've had my fair share of problematic musicians (Andy) and the year has only just begun.

I would also like to point out that I don't need much else to fluff up my college application with. I have been to a Cherokee Business Leadership Program (ask Robert about that), a week-long Christian Leadership Program (which did much more than teach me how to read the Bible), I plan on obtaining my Eagle Scout rank by the end of the year, I am an officer in Mu Alpha Theta, was captain of the Academic Bowl Team for two years, et cetera, et cetera. So as you can see, I don't need this to get into college. I'm doing this to help the band. And if you want to talk experience, ask yourself why Obama is the Democratic Presidential Nominee when he has the least political experience out of any Presidential candidate in history.

Lastly, my mind is blanking on such times when I've proved my lack of knowledge and experience. Please, do enlighten me.

[Duke Nukem]

How many times have you been mistaken on the forums here, for instance? You spend most of your time in practices in the band room anyways, so you don't have a good idea of what happens on the field. Seriously, you were only in band one year and haven't been in marching band for 3 months yet. Don't get arrogant.

Having problematic kids in your section doesn't make you good leadership, Jimmy. Every section has it's problem kids, so don't act like Andy was a special case (even if Mote made him one before he quit, but that has nothing to do with you).

Obama has nothing to do with you. Last I checked, you don't have a board of highly paid political advisors and a distinguished member of the senate at your back. I said this earlier and I'll say this again, let's not act like politicians over this.

Unit Captain is marching leadership, and being in pit means you do no marching, so in my eyes you are and will remain a section leader. Mote just wants a lot of leadership to make the band look bigger and so he has to do less work. Everyone, including you, know's that he's full of it anyways.

[EagleXC13]

WOW- nice way to take half the stuff I said the wrong way.

Let's see, which of my questions did you answer? Not many, to be exact.

You didn't give any evidence of my mistakes, the forums have nothing to do with band (except as a meeting place), you make just as many mistakes as I do on these forums, and there was absolutely no response to my resume.

Marching on the field doesn't make you a good leader, last time I checked. Oh, and pelvic thrusts do nothing to help that. The reason I'm not out on the field with all of you 24/7 is because I refuse to wheel the Pit Instruments out there only to have my section sit around and do nothing. If you want to help me wheel them out everyday, your more than welcome to.

Also, this position isn't a leadership position of knowledge. We don't have to try out by keeping command of a squad or by passing off music: that has nothing to do with this. This Band President is a misnomer. The position is meant to deal with the Booster Club and the interaction between the Booster Club and the Band. The true name of the position should be something like Student Body Representative to the Booster Club, but that's too long, so let's just call it President. I mean, look at any President, Governor or Mayor. There is no way that they know everything about everything that they are in charge of. They were probably a lawyer or judge before moving up to their position. The only way that they make good decisions is through the advice of their Cabinet or Advisors, otherwise they would fail at making good decisions. COME ON PEOPLE, ITS IN THE FREAKING CONSTITUTION!!!

The thing is, this is politics. We are applying for a position decided upon by the popular vote of our peers. Now, granted, less than half of them will see this, but we still feel the need to rip each other to shreds over our ideas (as Katie said earlier).

I have to go.
Goodnight All.

[Duke Nukem]

Being on the field means you know what's going on. The fact that being on the field means you're more in the loop on Mote's antics is why it's benificial to be there.

President is the student representative, and me and Anthony being in the band longer than you means that we know the kids better. That and a lot of shit happened with the Band Board and the parents that you don't know about (my mom was on the board, so I know a lot about what goes on at the meetings and what happened at them last year).

Even if your resume is impressive, do you really expect me to beleive that it hasn't crossed your mind that Band President would look pretty damn good alongside everything else on there? You did this with Science Team too.

Pelvic thrusts and my other shenanigans are just ways to make practice more fun (not just for me, but the people around me). Band morale is low, and kids need SOMETHING to look forward to when they go to band practice. I make practice fun because I don't want band to be a boring and hated activity, for me and the people around me. I motivate however I can (anyways, pelvic thrusts are fun).

[Anthony G]

Pelvic thrusts are always a good idea. I suggest at least 30-40 per sectional.

Yes Lucco, there were band presidents in the past. My freshmen year when Mote was in charge, Josh Salas (trumpet section leader) was president and I believe Lauren Bowers (Chase Bowers' sister + Drum major that year) was vice president, and I don't remember who secretary was. This means that this actually was Mote's idea, but I'm sure Mrs. Kosicki just reminded Mote somehow. This also means that leadership being Pres/VP is not a problem with Mote.

I remember my freshmen year Mote wasn't so much of a monster as he is now (don't quote me on that). He was more like how he was in band camp this year. He wasn't so control-hungry, he was pretty chill, and listened to us. Maybe he was just acting the entire time or I didn't know what was completely going on behind the scenes, but he didn't seem so bad to me.

Now, are there any discouragements any of you would like to give me? I'd like to hear some of my faults.

[Justice Bringer]

Sept 8, 2008 17:44:27 GMT -5 Anthony G said:

Pelvic thrusts are always a good idea. I suggest at least 30-40 per sectional.



I remember my freshmen year Mote wasn't so much of a monster as he is now

Now, are there any discouragements any of you would like to give me? I'd like to hear some of my faults.

to the first hehehehe

to the secound, your way to good at melee

[EagleXC13]

Let's finish this discussion on Friday, like someone proposed but didn't put in the forums. Is anyone else from the band planning on going for President? If so, they need to be at that meeting. Or maybe they don't. It depends on what we need to discuss. Let's stop arguing for now and decide how this is going to work.

And to clarify something, I'm not gonna go for the Science Team thing. Its all yours.

[Duke Nukem]

Pelvic thrusts are the best. They're like a victory dance.

Anthony, as far as your nerves go, I wasn't aware that you had that problem as severely as you described. Up until about the beginning of 9th grade (maybe the end of 8th) I had crippling stage-fright. I seriously couldn't handle pressure. Then I found my happy place. The reason I do well in auditions is because I totally lose track of my surroundings. It's not so much concentration as it is losing concentration. It's hard to explain. Last year during District Auditions, I was so chill that I didn't realize I was auditioning until after I finished my slow piece. It really helped me with my nerve problem, so maybe it will help you. Just don't overthink what you're doing and you'll perform fine.

As for your general skills as a leader, I don't know. I haven't seen you deal with kids enough to give you any advice. You should probably ask Michael. One thing I have noticed is that you can assert yourself a little more. Even on the field, you could be helping the kids around you be more in the set (especially on sets like the blocks). Mote might get mad if you get too vocal, but if you quietly help kids, I doubt there will be a problem, since trumpets have no marching leadership anyways.

[wolvy]

I was considering being Secretary, as that is the position I usually am, am good at it, and my mom wrote a handbook so I can learn up to be even better. Although I want to be VP, it would be a conflict of interests, as having my mom on the Board would not be fair with me too; I know we have differing opinions, but it still would not be appropriate.

Second, Jimmy should still be considered, because he knows enough about the band (we are not studying the interactions of New York City) and, if you want to throw the experience card, that is a bonus as it allows him to get a more realistic, unfiltered view of what has happened/happens in the band instead of our skewed perceptions.

Remember, let us not get our plans so tight yet; the board is still unsure how this whole process has to work. My mom thought of this on her own, and as such does not know the correct way for the voting process since we lack a Cabinet. According to Robert's Rules of Order, the Cabinet would vote the new one in, which would mean the Board would have to vote the new one in; this puts the problem of the band members having no vote, which my mom does not like. Anthony, do you remember how voting worked last time?

Lastly, these positions, especially the first time around, will be a lot of work. You will have to help write the bylaws (my mom will help) and keep this Cabinet of Communication as professional and organized as possible.

After doing some research, I discovered something hilarious. Ask me about privately (say something about attitude and band), and I will tell you.

[EagleXC13]

Robert, you need to be at this meeting Friday. Your knowledge of the Band Booster Club most likely surpasses that of us all, as your mom is the President. Also, if you keep reading into Robert's Rules of Order, you could bring those to the table as something for us to work off of, as I fear chaos is commonly found in meetings such as these.

[Anthony G]

Sept 8, 2008 19:14:32 GMT -5 Duke Nukem said:

Pelvic thrusts are the best. They're like a victory dance.

Anthony, as far as your nerves go, I wasn't aware that you had that problem as severely as you described. Up until about the beginning of 9th grade (maybe the end of 8th) I had crippling stage-fright. I seriously couldn't handle pressure. Then I found my happy place. The reason I do well in auditions is because I totally lose track of my surroundings. It's not so much concentration as it is losing concentration. It's hard to explain. Last year during District Auditions, I was so chill that I didn't realize I was auditioning until after I finished my slow piece. It really helped me with my nerve problem, so maybe it will help you. Just don't overthink what you're doing and you'll perform fine.

Yeah, my problem is that I over psyche myself, and everything falls apart. So far the only way I've found to beat the psyche is to get more comfortable with that environment. Only problem is, I hate feeling that way, and it really lowers your self-esteem to see that something you worked hard for goes down the drain because of something out of your control. It will require extreme un-concentration for me to not overthink things, but I think I only really REALLY get nervous when I have to audition or something. Other times I get nervous, quiver a little, but it's not very extreme.

Sept 8, 2008 19:14:32 GMT -5 Duke Nukem said:

As for your general skills as a leader, I don't know. I haven't seen you deal with kids enough to give you any advice. You should probably ask Michael. One thing I have noticed is that you can assert yourself a little more. Even on the field, you could be helping the kids around you be more in the set (especially on sets like the blocks). Mote might get mad if you get too vocal, but if you quietly help kids, I doubt there will be a problem, since trumpets have no marching leadership anyways.

I do my best to help the trumpets but also to stay within my boundaries. I remember my freshmen year I would always try to fix sets, and Mote would often get on my case about that. After 4 years of marching, I've learned to just stay within my boundaries and just help behind the scenes as much as possible.

Most of my should-be leadership skills go into sectional time. When you guys have leadership meetings or Michael is passing off someone, I will round up the trumpets, go outside, work on basic marching, do some warm-ups, play while marching, help with music, I did circle drill once when Michael had to look for Jonathan, I passed off Larry, and did some other minor things.

I really wish I could help the trumpets more in fixing their sets, but like I said, Mote has gotten on to me countless times about staying in my place. He hasn't said anything to me as an individual, but I know when he says "only leadership should be talking", he's talking about me. So, to counter the fact that the trumpets don't have any squad leaders, I've asked Ryan and Beth to help fix our sets so me or Michael won't get in trouble.

[Anthony G]

Sept 8, 2008 20:29:27 GMT -5 wolvy said:

Anthony, do you remember how voting worked last time?

My memory is vague, but I remember there were a few people that tried out. I don't remember if they had to give a speech Well, I remember they would leave the band room, and the band would vote. It was more of a popularity contest than anything, but that's usually how it goes. Once the band voted, the candidates came back in and the winner was announced.

I also remember that there was some type of representative for each class. Ryan O. was the rep for the freshmen class. Only the freshmen would vote for the freshmen class, only the sophomores for sophomore class, etc. I remember I got a few votes but Ryan was pretty much unanimous.
<---- What does this mean? There was a representative for each class, meaning our idea of cabinets wasn't too wild (sorry, I just remembered we had class representatives).

I would go into more detail if I could remember. Sorry.

[Duke Nukem]

I think Robert's board of representatives is too much. We have section leaders for that. We don't need more leadership. We have more than enough.

There's a difference between bias and awareness of the situation. I'm sorry to say that the band's biggest problem is Mote, but it is. You can't say I'm biased for telling the truth. He's demonstrated his cruelty and disregard for students and the band in general many times this year, and countless times in the past. That's not bias, that's fact. You can't say that lack of experience is a good thing because the inexperienced person is unbiased because that's just ignorance on their part. Leading isn't ignoring problems, it's fixing them. There's something you won't learn from Mote.

Class representatives would be a good idea, but who would be the freshman representative? Marleigh? Melissa? BABYFACE?

[wolvy]

Wait, isn't the problem with Mote that he fixes too much, like in class and stuff, or when he gets on our case in circle drill for missing the same thing over and over?

I think another problem is that we need a definite lists of stuff Mote has done, with all sides accounted for. It seems sometimes like Mote is more a myth than what he is in reality. I know we cannot stretch past 4-5 years and be accurate, for we do not have enough people to give a complete picture; as in, although we trust any one person's account, there will always be more to the story, stuff between the lines, and misunderstandings.

[Duke Nukem]

The list would get too long. You have NO idea how much he's done. Most people don't know half of the shit he's pulled (and gotten away with because Mr. Dunnavant doesn't like getting involved).

The main problem with Mote (there are many) when it comes to the students is that his total disregard for the kids has led to him fluctuating between cruelly critical and blatantly neglegent. He just doesn't care. All he cares about is himself and his own ego.

[EagleXC13]

Dunnavant hasn't been at Etowah long enough to have as many complaints as you claim, Lucco. Also, I've realized Mote has no regard for us because we have no regard for him. I told him I wanted to go to district yesterday and he actually told me that he wanted me to go too. When was the last time Mote sent a Percussionist to District?!!? Not in the time that I've been here. We need to be more polite with him. Honestly, that's the last thing anybody would want to do (including me) but it's the only option left besides getting Mote fired. And his ego is currently this band. How would you feel if your band sounded horrible. You would criticize and complain until it sounded better. I admit he holds his expectations too high, but that's all he really wants.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending Mote and telling you all to forget everything he's done (actually, do no such thing), but we can't go off attacking the leader of this organization as such.

And lastly, because I just saw it, Dunnavant likes to get involved. But people don't like going to him. If you think Dunnavant is doing nothing, think again. It might just take him a while to accomplish whatever he had in mind.

[Duke Nukem]

I don't want to attack Mote or anything, but should leadership's role really be to protect the kids from their teacher's cruelty? I've received several complaints from kids who've told me that Mote yelled at them for prioritizing things like family and schoolwork above band. He then told them that if they weren't going to contribute to the band, they should leave. That wasn't just one incident, it's happened multiple times. The only solution I see for us is for leadership to become the positive feedback the band doesn't get. Motivation can be boiled down to three things: fun, success, and confidence. Kids have to have fun in band if you're going to expect them to do well and continue being in band in later years (not all the time, mind you, but there should be a generally fun atmosphere). Kid's can't despise band practice. They also have to feel like the band is going somewhere. If all they receive is criticism, they lose hope. Positive feedback makes them feel like they're contributing to a successful band. Confidence is, in my opinion, the most important. Kid's have to KNOW that they're a good musician and marcher. If you have a hopeless sad-sad marching around that thinks they suck, how do you think they'll perform. Will they have volume? Will they have tone? Will they have technique? Mote doesn't understand any of this. He expects things to magically fix themselves without him actually fixing them. Then he gets mad when they don't. It's not the band's fault if it doesn't succeed. It can always be traced back to individuals, like low brass losing it's rhythm or trumpets getting off step, and those things could have been fixed if Mote knew how and when to address the situation. Don't be so quick to blame the kids, and the converse applies to Mote (although not nearly as often).

[Duke Nukem]

My theory/fervent hope is that Dunnavant and the previous principal compiled a file of all the complaints and scandals involving Mote over the years, to use at an appropriate time. Were he to ever take steps to get rid of Mote, that hypothetical file would greatly ease the process. I don't think Dunnavant likes getting flooded with complaints about Mote, who refuses to address those complaints.

[EagleXC13]

You have many good points in that first post, especially the composition of Motivation, which you hit dead-on. Mote's only thoughts of Motivation is the success aspect. That's his main fault.

For the second post, Dunnavant can't act on hearsay, which is practically all he'd ever had until the Andy incident happened.

[Duke Nukem]

No, there's been a lot of stuff that's wasn't just "Mote's evil, get rid of him" stuff. Nothing as bad as Andy, but it gets pretty damn bad. They aren't my stories to tell (I probably shouldn't know them myself, but I like to know things about the band), so I won't repeat them. Also, Board Meetings got ridiculous last year (another little know fact) and are not showing much improvement this year. I know events of many of them (and not just from my mom) and can safely say that Stallings and Mote have a lot to answer for. I wont say WHAT they have to answer for because the general public shouldn't really be aware of exactly how the band's run. Sometimes it's better to know that someone is a bad person without know why.

[wolvy]

Who said Board Meetings were out of hand this year? Your mom is not even on the board this year, and I've been to a couple. Neither party can be blamed, for everyone is at fault. No, scratch that, no one is at fault. I am sick of people trying to pawn off people's irresponsibility as Mr. Mote's problem and vice versa. We all are so soon to point the finger, but seriously, it is usually never their fault. Mote gets angry because he shouldn't have to fix some of this stuff. None of this is complicated, we should be able to fix it or the leadership should do it in sectionals/on their own time. Another helpful thing would be goals. If we ask Mr. Mote what he expects to be accomplished/ask Mr. Mote to give us a more detailed plan, we can understand what we can focus on to get better.

I am also concerned many of us do not really understand how marching band should work. I am doing research with our neighbors, and I cannot find how to make rehearsal more "fun" than it is. Like seriously, how would you? The only way to really get through it is to want to be there, which sucks as in our situation, well, that is what we are discussing.

And Lucco, I completely disagree with the statement "Sometimes it's better to know that someone is a bad person without know[ing] why". Knowledge is power, and the only thing that can justify accusing someone is proof. We need a list, not because of length, because it makes any case he have look stupid if we do not. How can we complain if our terms are just general and shady? I know for a fact Mr. Dunnavent does not tolerate bullshit or stupid games, so we have to play a straight game with cold, hard facts. Another thing I have mentioned several times, is that if we do not knot why we are mad, we will just act without a cause. Even if we start basic and small, we need a documented list with dates and objective descriptions if we are to ever bring up our case seriously, not just a horde of complaining people.

Anthony or anyone, do you remember how Mr. Mote was and what the general feelings were of him before us? I am going to try and contact Rudat and others, trying to build a better image on what is going on.

[Duke Nukem]

It's better not to know some of things things Mote and Stallings have done. Don't question me on that. If you don't know, you shouldn't. Just trust me. This also links into Dunnavant, because he DOES in fact take bullshit. His philosophy is to let the teachers and coaches run their own programs without him interfering much. He's said that to many parents, including mine. He does that, and that's how Mote gets away with so much.

"Not pointing the finger of blame" only applies when nobody is at fault. It's a well known fact that Mote does terrible things, and there's no point denying it. You can't just say that we're blaming Mote for everything when everything can be traced back to Mote. Ignoring a problem isn't the way to fix it, and Mote has proved several times that he's a problem (usually with his terrible decision-making skills). It's not the band, even if he blames us for everything. Sorry Robert, but there's a difference between peace-keeping and total inaction. Rwanda happened with UN troops right there because of inaction. Try to be Ghandi all you want, but I'm not going to let Mote treat the band like a welcome mat.

I'm not going to argue the issue of the Band Board. That's not something that needs to be posted on a public forum.

Want to know why I don't like Mote? He doesn't care. Let's go over some of the more recent incidences. Derrick, Mystery Kid who was forced to piss himself, he wont release the band budget, he essentiall told Cam to quit, he abuses kids in front of the entire class (Justin, Marcus, Adamczyk, Emma, ect.), he makes decisions to limit how much fun the kids can have in band for no reason, he gives excessive speeches that only serve his ego, he wastes money on pointless things, he refuses to make any changes to his own style because of his massive ego, he forgets everything he says to us, he insists on a needlessly complicated band beaureacracy...The list goes on and on. Extend it further into the past and it increases exponentially. You can write a list if you want, but I wont help. You'll never finish.

Making practice fun and spirited isn't a matter of yelling a lot and essentially spewing spirit. I make practice more fun in my own ways, including basics. Pelvic thrusts are an example. Now, I don't expect anyone to go as far as that, but it's something. I make practice a little more interesting for myself and the people around me so band practice doesn't become a grim and monotonous two hours of marching in which the only thing you have to look forward to is the end of the depression that is band practice. Some kids feel that way, so I get them spirited in different ways (such as my "antics" in between sets). Just get creative.

[Anthony G]

I have just read all the recent posts. I will quote many things and explain my thoughts. Give me a while.

[wolvy]

I am not trying to be Gandhi. Trying to be someone means you are nothing.

What I am trying to do is prevent people from doing something stupid. I know a lot of what happens on the board,although my mom keeps much more in confidence of the Boosters. I am also tryign to prevent people from overreacting and misunderstanding. Lucco, it is good that you want to take action, but you are not looking at the whole picture. I am trying to get the most complete picture possible, because this band is complicated. The thing you won't admit is that everyone is at fault; it is like you want everything to connect to Mr. Mote because it makes the cause seem more noble. In reality, Mr. Mote has to be that way because people aren't stepping up. If you do research like I have done, many bands, especially those in East Cobb, all have dictators for band directors. Why? They cannot tolerate anything and, more importantly, the students fix themselves and work to be there. We keep wanting to fix the band, but we know nothing; however, this was just Walton, and other schools may operate differently. We have to do research and learn how the system works, or this will be another failure that is just another bunch of angry kids spewing their message. Seriously, guys, calm down and let's focus. We need to contact other band programs to understand how they work so we can see what the real issue with the band program is. Have you guys not seen how what has been tried before does not work? I am not kidding, if we want to make Dunnavant listen, we have to be official, have documentation, and present our case like adults with substantiated reasons for all.

Here are several, redundancy needed, MISUNDERSTANDINGS, that have evolved into problems.

Mr Mote won't give out the budget? Ever noticed that there ISN'T A TREASURER. My mom is working her butt of to try and not only fill the responsibilities of president but treasurer as well. Finally someone has stepped up (I think Jarot's dad), but it will take some time. You obviously do not realize the time this all takes. Plus, my mom has other commitments; she is up to 4 am sometimes getting all of her work done. The budget you o so desire will be completed soon, and you will notice on it nothing is ill spent. The Underarmour? You should know where that monmey came from (meant for another tuba but dropped as the 3rd tuba didn't join). Let us not speculate either way, for we do not know.

Why would he "limit our fun"? Obviously something has happened where instruments were in danger, as crazy as it sounds. I am sure everyone is responsible enough not to have this happen, but we do not have a shed of tubas or baritones to replace one that needs repair.

No one is preventing you from expressing your creativity and having fun during practice, just as long as it doe not interfere with fixing the sets. I really do not think this has been an issue; sure, practices can be boring, but when in our 3 years or any other year were they 'exciting'? I have not noticed a major difference in actual transpiring events of practices. Please, I want to know what you are talking about.

And no offense Lucco, but apparently Mr. Dunnavant and you have a very different definition of bullshit.

Look, everyone. We have overdone the talking phase. We know what we have to do. We have no basis for any course of action, so we must wait and gain our only and greatest weapon, knowledge.

[Duke Nukem]

I've talked with Dunnvant about band. He's a straight shooter, but only when he cares to get involved (which he usually doesn't).

If you spend all your time blaming the kids instead of the leadership, nothing gets done. Mote is responsible for the band, and he's doing a poor job of it. If he can't lead the kids, who will? The students can't because he wont let them, so all we do is work behind the scenes and try to get Mote to change (which wont happen easily, if at all).

Why didn't we have a treasurer this year? Why few parents want to be on the board? Why have parents quit the board? There are problems, make no mistake about that. As for the budget, I doubt the money is well spent. What about the iPod last year? Did they ever use it? Where is it now? What about Mote's band director convention trip fund? It was $3000 last year for Mote and Stallings and $6000 this year for just Mote. What the hell is the money spent on? Why do they keep the money they don't spend (which they did last year)? Do we see anything for most of the money they supposedly spend on the kids? Don't bullshit me with the budget thing. I know a hell of a lot about where that money really goes.

Get creative with making practice less monotonous. I try to. Don't just let it become mind-numbing tedium. That's my point. Band should be a generally fun atmosphere. Why would kids want to be part of a boring and tedious institution?