OMG WTF BAND PRESIDENT?

[Mass]

Leadership is a position in which a selected person found to be qualified leads at one point and follows at another. If you make it you made it if you didn't oh well. Everybody just calm down on the fact of who makes president or VP, or secretary. Like Katie said why prove yourself to a man who doesn't give a d*mn about us. To him we're probably just a job he has to do. I'm not saying this is true but nothing has been presented at this time to change my view. I'm not trying for president because i honestly believe there are people better suited for this job.

Another thing, BAND IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN LIFE. I love band yes, but I realize I have PEOPLE I want to spend time with and THINGS I must do before I do band. On the note of suicide. WTF I don't give a d*mn how much pressure you're under SUICIDE IS NEVER THE F*CKING ANSWER. Don't give me crap saying that someone has the choice. My view is that if you put effort into something you're going to get something out. Giving up never helped anyone. It was through work that civilization got to where it is and work will get it farther. So put some work into your own life and get something from it. You won't hurt just yourself, think of your family, no matter how they actually care about you. School ends, pressure will go away and life will get BETTER! Seriously don't get pissy about this because I've lost a friend against her own will and I won't lose a friend to suicide.

If you want this new leadership position go for it. No one should hold you back from what you want.

[Anthony G]

Sept 5, 2008 18:50:30 GMT -5 soktane said:

You're kidding me...
I honestly wish for all of those running to do well, but this has gotten so wildly out of hand.
You all joined band to play in the band and to play well as a group. Don't you get tired of having to constantly prove yourself to a man who doesn't give a damn about you? You fight each other and tear each other down and bring others up just to make yourself look better in his eyes. You say it's not for him but for the band, but do you honestly believe that's true?
No matter how well you represent yourself, he's going to pick the one he wants, even if someone else would be a better decision.
I love my trumpet and I still play, and I'm much better than I've ever been before, but I'm so happy that I quit and got away from all this. I hear about people being publicly humiliated, I have a friend who's been contemplating suicide because band has taken up so much of their life that they're failing almost every other subject, and then I see you guys climbing over each other just to be "band president". Do you honestly think that that title has any merit whatsoever? The leadership is broken enough as it is, throwing this into the mix would just be stupid.

Katie, what you said here is like 96% wrong.

Don't you get tired of having to constantly prove yourself to a man who doesn't give a damn about you?

The only thing we are trying to prove to Mote is that some of his decisions hurt the band instead of fixing the band. We didn't try out for leadership to prove to Mote that we have qualities of a leader. We tried out for leadership because we knew it would be fun on our part. We aren't trying to become president to prove to Mr. Mote that we can be in charge. We're trying to become president to stop him from making our most dedicated musicians quit.

You fight each other and tear each other down and bring others up just to make yourself look better in his eyes.

This isn't for Mote. Mr. Mote doesn't even have a say in this election. We're not tearing each other down. Perhaps some things that Jimmy and I have said are discouraging to Lucco, but we are in no way tearing each other down. If this was so, we would all hate each other. We're all still really good friends. Besides, I'm sure Lucco will read our comments and try to improve himself on his faults.

You say it's not for him but for the band, but do you honestly believe that's true?

I don't understand how this is for him in any way, shape, or form. All of us are upset by the fact that Mr. Mote is trying to control our every action, and if one of us was elected president than he/she would take the iniative to help the band as best as possible.

No matter how well you represent yourself, he's going to pick the one he wants, even if someone else would be a better decision.

Like I said before, Mr. Mote isn't the one picking the president, the students are. You are right that Mote has a large impact on picking people for leadership positions. Mote knew Ryan was going to be drum major before he even tried-out. We knew that Lucco would have been picked over Hunter if it wasn't for Lucco's parent meeting with Mote. We all knew that Katie Arce and Matt Porter's try-out was sub par, but they still got picked. However, these positions that are being offered right now will not be influenced by Mote.

then I see you guys climbing over each other just to be "band president". Do you honestly think that that title has any merit whatsoever? The leadership is broken enough as it is, throwing this into the mix would just be stupid.

We are climbing over each other to be president because we want the most qualified person that will help the band. Wtf are you talking about when you say this doesn't have any merit? We are doing this for the band kids, not for Mote!

I appreciate that you try to throw some sense at us, but you not in band shows some obvious ignorance and you just can't come in here and say stuff that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Duke Nukem]

I appreciate what I think you guys are trying to do with your criticisms, but you're wrong on a lot of things.

First of all, I didn't just spend 30 minutes with Derrick once after school and go around saying, "LOOK AT HOW DEDICATED I AM. BE MORE LIKE ME." No. I stayed after several times this year and last year to help him with his bass clarinet. The most recent session, I stayed after for 2 hours. Don't call me ignorant when you just assume things instead of confirming your "facts".

I understand that when I called Mote out in class, that was out of line. I acknowledged that several times, and I really don't want to be reminded of it over and over again. Still, I am confident when I speak to him, even if it doesn't look it. Don't forget, if I hadn't spoken up in that leadership meeting a couple weeks ago, nobody would have. Granted, I told Jimmy, Adamczyk, and Watsrobe to let me start it off (because I didn't want them to be on Mote's list and I already was) because I knew that the rest of the kids would support me, but I wouldn't have spoken at all unless I was confident in myself and the point I was trying to convey (although conveying that point was obstructed by the brick wall that is Mote being stubborn). If I don't look confident, that's because I'm trying to suppress the rage that is Mote utterly refusing to help the band succeed. Don't mistake it for fear. I'm just trying to keep myself from yelling at the man.

I didn't say Mrs. Kosicki's speech was worthless in that sense. Please don't take me out of context. I DID say that there was no need to explain the workings of the Band Booster in a leadership meeting, but that's true. Seriously guys, don't start quoting me on everything I say. All we're doing is weakening unity of the band when we start taking shots at each other like politicians. We need to stop trying to erode people's images. I haven't been doing this, but if I have, I'm sorry for it.

I know that for a while I was being somewhat insightful against Mote in the band, and I corrected that. There are better ways to handle things than to have everyone dislike Mote and his decisions as much as I do. On the other hand, can you blame me for not wanting everyone to be hypnotized by his sugar-coated speeches and lies about the bands supposed "potential beyond any other Etowah band"? Mote lies indiscriminately, and it drives me crazy. Do we really have to be at a point where we can't trust what our band director says? It's ridiculous.

Leadership is somewhat broken, don't be fooled about that. Mote tells us to have kids relay their concerns to leadership so we can tell him, but to what goal? Anything we tell him he sees as criticizing him, and he thinks he's always right. When he brushes off any and all complaints about the band theres no way to improve our situation. That's one of the main reasons I want to be president/vice-president. I want Mote to listen, and having a higher position may help accomplish that.

I'm aware that it would look bad if the band's president/vice-president quit, and believe me, I don't really want to quit. I love band. I just don't feel comfortable being in an unchanging organization run by a man who's exhibited his cruelty several times in class and in practice. If I were to get one of these positions by election, that probably mean I wouldn't quit band (as of right now, I'm on the fence about whether I'm quitting at the semester or not).

[Duke Nukem]

Anthony, I have absolutely no problem with you running for president. I don't care if I get president or vice-president, but I DO want one of those positions. Personally, I feel that Anthony more than deserves to be leadership, and that he also got cheated out of a leadership position last year. Anthony, I'm glad you're running for president, it gives you the chance to take what you earned last year. Go for it.

[Duke Nukem]

I fixed my earlier post, Jimmy. Happy?

[Duke Nukem]

This would be so much easier to discuss in person or in a chat. Maybe we should all stay after on Friday and talk this over. BK Lounge, anyone?

[Xero]

Sept 3, 2008 20:08:05 GMT -5 Duke Nukem said:

I actually think this is one of Mote's few good ideas (which makes me question whether or not it's his idea), because if you don't like or can't relate to your leadership, an elected official is always there to listen.

You're right, Lucco. This wasn't Mote's idea. Mrs. Kosicki brought this idea up at one of our leadership meetings last year.

Anthony really does deserve to be leadership. He should have at least been Trumpet Unit Captain this year, but, again, he was cheated out of his position. I think both Anthony and Lucco would be good for the job. And Justin would be a good brass "cabinet" member. He knows what goes on with the band, he tries to help everyone, and he can easily make friends with just about anyone. He would be a really good choice for one of the leadership positions.

... That's all I have to say for now, but I should have more later.

[Duke Nukem]

I have some reservations about elected officials for each section. That's too much. We can't have 10 "cabinet members" debating each other. We have enough leadership as it is, and the only reason I think elected leaders is a good idea is because some sections are stuck under people like Josh and Morgan. Don't get me wrong, everyone in leadership has good intentions (except for Morgan, who just loves power), but they're misguided in how to carry them out. Loving the band doesn't make you good leadership, being a leader does.

[Mass]

Morgan isn't leadership she just works with uniforms, right?

[Anthony G]

Yeah, Morgan is just in charge of uniforms, but she's still annoying. I think if we substituted Priscilla with Morgan then the context would work.

Lucco, nice post explaining yourself on page 2.

Lucco, the cabinet won't get together and argue or whatever. All they are doing is being a spokesperson for their section. They'll come to the president, and say what their section has agreed upon, etc. 10 people does sound like a lot, so maybe we can limit that to half.

It's a good idea to discuss this in person. BK sounds good. I suggest the play place (jk). Just remember that Me, Michael, Jimmy, and Robert all have math team until 3:30. Maybe for that day you (Lucco) can decide to join and then quit once 3:30 comes.

[Anthony G]

Oh yeah, I honestly don't think it matters who gets Pres/VP. Either way they're going to have as much say in the band. The only difference is the title.

[Duke Nukem]

Nah, I'll just chill and wait for you guys. It's only an hour, so I can hang in the band room or something.

If you want a representative from each section, wouldn't that be a section leader? I think the elected representatives are a good idea because Mote is more inclined to listen to them as well as kids being able to relate to them. Most kids, other than low brass (and that may not be true), don't have much of a problem talking to their section leaders.

[Mass]

I'll come along to talk about all of this. I'm wanting to be able to help. An elected official has a lot of say and if they aren't given the influence the ones who elected them (which would be us) would get very very distraught. Mrs. Kosicki is trying to help out she's being a dedicated board member and being some one Mr. Mote is not.

On a side note. After the games if you are still there when the pit crew gets the trailer back to the band room, please help them unload. I know you all want to go home and go to sleep, but so do they! My dad is the guy running the pit crew. He isn't a very healthy man, and he can't move well. He'd appreciate it if you'd help. Last night after the game not many band kids helped them move the equipment. Help the pit crew please.

[Anthony G]

Sept 6, 2008 18:20:04 GMT -5 Duke Nukem said:

Nah, I'll just chill and wait for you guys. It's only an hour, so I can hang in the band room or something.

If you want a representative from each section, wouldn't that be a section leader? I think the elected representatives are a good idea because Mote is more inclined to listen to them as well as kids being able to relate to them. Most kids, other than low brass (and that may not be true), don't have much of a problem talking to their section leaders.

Yeah, but they're are some section leaders that wouldn't do the job right. Personally, I don't think Josh D. would be able to do his job right. Josh is a big time lier. You won't believe this unless you keep track of what he says and then a few months later something happens that totally goes against what he said. I'm not saying that Josh will lie to the president about what his section says, I'm just saying we shouldn't have that kind of representation.
Also, Katie Arce. Katie comes off to me as someone that has an attitude of "I'm better than you so I'm not going to agree or I'm not going to listen". This might not be true, but if someone that I've known for 4+ years still seems that way, then I'm going to think that she is like that.

I think a "cabinet" would be good because if you assign someone without a leadership position to a role of importance, they will take their job more seriously. Besides, section leaders and squad leaders will already have a say in the president's actions. However, this comes back to "too many people as a representative".

I like the idea of voting. Perhaps we could get each section to vote for someone that would be good for a cabinet postion. Thoughts?

[Anthony G]

Sept 6, 2008 18:32:56 GMT -5 Mass said:

On a side note. After the games if you are still there when the pit crew gets the trailer back to the band room, please help them unload. I know you all want to go home and go to sleep, but so do they! My dad is the guy running the pit crew. He isn't a very healthy man, and he can't move well. He'd appreciate it if you'd help. Last night after the game not many band kids helped them move the equipment. Help the pit crew please.

Perhaps before the games you or Ryan O. can make an announcement to help the pit, that way we can remember.

[Duke Nukem]

Wesley, feel free to recruit anyone you see that's there at the moment to help the pit crew unload. If someone's just standing around, tell them to help. Nobody's going to say no.

People in Josh's section always have Adamczyk or Rob to talk to if Josh proves unreliable or just plain stupid. As for Katie Arce, she's not stuck up, she's just a little flaky. She is hard to approach, being Katie "Look at How Cute I Am" Arce, but that's just her. She's not a bad person or anything. Anyways, I talk to most of the upper woodwinds anyways, so even if Katie's a little out of touch, I try to keep myself in the loop on kid's concerns and whatnot. With all the leadership and should-be leadership (like Anthony), pretty much everyone in the band has a voice (even if it isn't always heard). Long story short, I still think that 3 elected officials is enough.

[Xero]

To appease Lucco and everyone that wants a cabinet, why don't we just have a President, VP, Secretary, and an elected cabinet member from brass, woodwinds, and percussion (and color guard) instead of each individual section? That way we don't have too many people, and we still have people to represent everyone.

[Duke Nukem]

I don't really think it's our decision Michael. I doubt Mote will have more than 3 elected officials. It detracts from his own power too much.

[EagleXC13]

Yes, but Mrs. Kosicki would be for it all the way. Besides, the Elected Officials from each section should be the VPs, and Secretary isn't true leadership, so that's only 4 elected officials with any sort of power. Also, we shouldn't let Mote have a say in this: it should deal solely with the Band Booster Club and Mrs. Kosicki should be the one to make the decisions on that sort of stuff. She is a much easier person to work with and would surely grant us the support we need.

Lucco: I apologize if I sounded too harsh in my previous posts against you; its just that I have the utmost support for Anthony and at the time you were the main contender, leading me to the need to bring you down. I will stand with my previous statements, but I am starting to think that saying them in a different way would have been better.

I think if we can all unanimously agree that one person (Anthony) should be President, we could create a coalition strong enough to win him the band's vote without much work. It would be especially good, Michael W., if you could get everyone from the brass forums onto this topic, for then we would have the support of the entire (well, almost entire: i could bet that Josh has his own plans) brass section. That would give us more than 1/3 of the band behind us, while the rest of us not in brass could try to win over our individual sections.

[Anthony G]

Jimmy, don't start making me president now. Lucco and I should both have equal opportunity to become president.

Right now I agree with Lucco that the section/squad leaders are enough people to be spokesmen for their section. Instead we could just ask for certain people's opinions; we don't have to give everyone a position. I THINK WE SHOULD SERIOUSLY ASK JONATHON OR LARRY TO SETTLE THIS DISPUTE.

[Duke Nukem]

What's Jonathan and Larry's problem?

People don't need to be leadership to give their opinions. That's why we're going to have elected officials in the first place. Seriously, we have enough leadership as it is.

Do you really think Mote will just let the Band Booster create leadership positions without his permission. Even if he wasn't power-crazy, that would be too much. The Booster Club doesn't have that kind of authority. They're there to budget, not to run the band. Mote gets paid for that.

[Anthony G]

I seriously think Jonathan has a mental problem like autism, but we can't be sure unless we ask him (and I really don't want to do that because if he isn't retarded then it would REALLY offend him).

Larry's parents are divorced and I think he just craves attention.

[EagleXC13]

But what does that have to do with this?

And even though Mote wouldn't want these positions, i doubt he could say no to Mrs. Kosicki and give her a viable reason without her seeing it to be pure bullshit. But if Mote does say no to those positions, the section representatives don't have to be official. The pres could just pick people to report on the status of the section.

Sept 6, 2008 22:09:49 GMT -5 Anthony G said:

Jimmy, don't start making me president now. Lucco and I should both have equal opportunity to become president.

In that case I am now part of the Presidential race (meaning i want the position of Pres)

[wolvy]

The Cabinet is cool, but why don't we just tweak the chain of command we are supposed to have?

For example, why don't we have bimonthly/weekly meetings (always before a board meeting) where the Leadership get the opinions of the band, who then report to the Officials (P/VP/Sec) in a meeting to vote/decide what wants to be discussed at the meetings. So, the Leadership becomes like County Representatives, while the Officials are the State Representatives. I know a unicameral system is not the best, but unless we divide marching and musical leadership there are not enough people for a bicameral system.

Whatever the case, the Officials have to be very professional and organized, even possibly having to draft a set of bylaws. You may think "We do not need to be that official," but in order to operate at our maximum efficiency, the Officials will need at the very least a system of order.

Another thing that will help is that the First Generation has to be the very best it can be, for once they are elected, all future Officials will be voted upon by them, NOT the Band Boosters (only doing it this time because no Officials exist yet). If the Officials are rotten at their roots (which I know they will not be), this idea will never grow to be more than a "quaint concept".

I think we need to push for some sort of student input, as although the Board will do a nice job, we will know who is best, hopefully; however, our judgments may also be blinded by our character, convictions, and opinions, which is why the Board has to intervene. All people have different viewpoints, which is why the more that can contribute to the process, the more fair the vote will be (although many indecisive may be pressured by more assertive...we must make sure everyone has their own original opinion devoid of said influence).

This will be good. We have to keep the ball rolling and keep it in the minds of the Board (which is no problem), Mr. Mote, and the band.

[Duke Nukem]

Didn't Anthony say there were Band Presidents in the past? If so, this isn't the first generation, and there's already a system in place, even if it is a little dusty. Let's not put too much though into this.

Jimmy, it's fine that you want to be band president, but please don't do it just to say you got the position on a resume. Think about it: this is your first year in marching band and you were only in band for freshman year. Even if you are a good musician (I'm aware that you are already leadership AKA section leader), you don't know much about the band as an organization. You already proved your lack of knowledge and experience several times. I may sound discouraging right now, but it honestly don't think you're qualified to be band president. You lack experience. Don't be that guy obsessed with padding out his college application, it hurts the organizations you're in.