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Post by BBQ on Aug 30, 2008 21:57:15 GMT -5
Mr. Dunnavent can't do anything to Mote. Mr. Mote is at the point in his teaching career where he can do pretty much anything and get away with it. It's some kind of teaching contract. I think if he molests or kills someone then he can get fired, but anything else he can get fired.
Lucco, you said the band is slowly dying. Why not take the chance to talk with Mote? Sure, that might kill the band faster, but there's nothing to lose. I'm going to have to side with Robert on this one. We aren't doing this for us, we aren't doing this to spite Mote, we're doing this for the future of the band. I have nothing to gain from approaching Mote since I will be graduating. I will also have nothing to lose because I'm not in a leadership position.
I know you state facts that Mote will not listen to us no matter what. Something inside me tells me that we should still talk to Mote. Like I said, there's nothing to lose.
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Post by wolvy on Aug 30, 2008 22:11:09 GMT -5
Thanks Lucco for your obviously objective opinion.
Let's start, shall we?
Tyler said it perfectly without even having to read your contribution. Evey single word is said with spite and exaggeration. I cannot even think of an argument that your own words do not say yourself. Lucco, if you really wanted a leadership position, you should have spent this year proving you deserve it no matter what. That would have shown Mr. Mote "Hey, I made a mistake."
I'll stop there. No matter what any of us says, you, Lucco, will not budge. Lucco has become what he thinks of Mr. Mote, unmoving and stubborn, uncompromising and hateful. Do you really think a mass quiting will send the message needed? No, it will only prove to the school that band does not need to be included in the budget anymore and cut the program, not fixing anything; why? For all Mr. Dunnavant knows, Mr. Mote has not really changed his methodology of teaching, meaning the demise of the band will be, in his eyes, on us. Although that shock might get his attention, it will permanently damage the program, as who would want to join a band where everyone literally quit. You do not see the power of the entire band peacefully approaching Mr. Mote because you do not want to see it work. You'd rather we fail so you can get back and allow your plot to unfold.
Lucco, I know we have always been on rough terms, but to say I'm full of shit was uncalled for. Do you really think I only got Unit Captain because Mr. Stallings liked me and my mom was president? If mom wasn't involved, would it have made a difference? And do you honestly think I have been peachy with Mr. Mote/Stallings my entire band career? Of course not! I have felt I deserved a higher chair many times when I was absorbed by emotions, but I realized all I have to do is prove myself.
Let's be objective here and analyze why we shouldn't be leadership, allowing us to make things more realistic. I know I am not the most assertive, so my discipline is not the greatest, but I hope that just a simple remainder will prevent me from using such means. I also know I am apt to making mistakes, but who is not? Now Lucco, you have to analyze what any person could see in you that would make them hesitant about promoting you. I know you have good means and can have great charisma, but I know personally how vindictive you can be. Every year in the clarinet section says it all. Remember "Isn't it funny how no matter how much Robert practices, I will always be better than him? HAHAHAHAHAHA." I know we could probably spend days throwing shit that we've done to each other out, but I've tried my best to move on with the best of my abilities.
Now let's move on to sectionals. Remember how the Seniors gave their input into leadership? Remember how you would always interrupt and be obnoxious, even if it were jest? How do you think Brittany scored you for that, huh? What comes around goes around, Lucco. You act as though you are the perfect man wronged in everything you do, but face the facts, you are unnecessarily rude when you shouldn't and act like a jackass sometimes. For example, you blatantly said "I'm taking Psychology so I can understand the mindgames I play with people." I KNOW you can be an excellent leader, but you dig your own grave sometimes with your pride.
I know you are going to whip back "I STAND UP FOR I BELIEVE AND DON'T KISS ASS LIKE YOU." There is a major difference between kissing ass and treating people with respect and equality. Plus, you have gone past standing up for what you believe, you are now downright turning every negative into fuel for your revenge. I want to believe your cause is noble, but should I?
Plus, we all have to face some other facts. Why are we doing pass-offs? Because middle school band is terrible. Mr. Johnson is an excellent musician and teacher, but the process behind that band is set up to fail, for too many people do not want to really be in the band; however I know Mr. Johnson will take the Now 7th Graders (ones who started in 6th) and make them excellent beyond comprehension. They, I know, will mark an excellent day for the Etowah Band. They will not need pass-offs, they will be able to warm-up without mistakes and finish it in 15 minutes or less. They will be amazing musicians, but it will not matter if we poison the Etowah band wiht our contempt!
How about 2 Gandhi quotes and I'm done:
* Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
* I came in contact with every known Indian anarchist in London. Their bravery impressed me, but I felt that their zeal was misguided. I felt that violence was no remedy for India's ills, and that her civilisation required the use of a different and higher weapon for self-protection.
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Post by wolvy on Aug 30, 2008 22:12:13 GMT -5
Exactly Anthony! When we do not try is when we fail!
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Post by wolvy on Aug 30, 2008 22:19:37 GMT -5
We can affect change! We can actually do something! But we need everyone! Any bit of support will help!
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Post by BBQ on Aug 30, 2008 22:49:10 GMT -5
When you tried out for leadership, I seriously thought you deserved Drum Major more than anyone. However, as I said before, Mote likes choosing favorites, and Ryan was destined to become Drum Major (plus he's a senior and 5-year marcher).
Lucco does indeed has the potential to be an excellent leader. It's just his remarks can be taken the wrong way when he means for them to be good natured. He also needs to realize that there is a time for jokes and there is a time to be serious (and from what I've seen, he's improved. There was that one case last week where Lucco cracked when Mote was giving us that speech).
I really hope this will be the case. To be a successful middle school teacher you must find that right balance of dictatorship and chill attitude so students will still like you. Middle school is the time where students are like super freshmen and think they are better than the teachers. Mr. J lets people step all over him and he still needs to find that right balance between assertiveness and chillness.
I'll be looking forward to Lucco's response.
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Post by wolvy on Aug 30, 2008 23:09:19 GMT -5
Although Ryan had a mediocre audition, you have to admit Ryan really had the charisma to be Drum Major, so he really deserved it.
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Post by Justice Bringer on Aug 31, 2008 8:39:33 GMT -5
well said
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Mizagium
Story Master 
Judge. Jury. Executioner.
Posts: 2,798
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Post by Mizagium on Aug 31, 2008 8:53:19 GMT -5
Although Ryan had a mediocre audition, you have to admit Ryan really had the charisma to be Drum Major, so he really deserved it. More so than Beth Davis... |
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Post by Duke Nukem on Aug 31, 2008 11:24:09 GMT -5
ALL-RIGHTY THEN
I am fully aware that I love jokes too much to be taken seriously all the time. I know that and I accept it. It's who I am, in fact, I laughed during Mote's death-speech before our first performance. I just laugh. It's what I do, even if it's a little inappropriate.
I did not exaggerate that story with my dad and Mote at all, whether you want to accept that or not. It's an example of exactly how unreasonable Mote is. By the way, DON'T SPREAD THAT STORY AROUND. I don't want the entire band talking about my dad. All of that happened just as I described it, with no augmentation of details whatsoever.
Robert, as far as our "rough terms" go, that usually stems from your inability to see past the surface. For example, for about 3 weeks you believed I was serious when I kept telling you that science came before math. It resulted in you calling me stupid several times before I realized you thought I was serious, and corrected you. You don't really respect me much, and you know that, or at least you didn't up until this year. You've improved on that, but still, I still remember all the times you sat and pouted after I beat you in something. You NEVER acknowledged the fact that I beat you in ANYTHING. Ever.
I am not stubborn. It may seem like it sometimes, but I'm really not. If you recall, I spent all last year trying to defend Stallings and Mote to people in an attempt to keep the band together. A lot of the time, that was to Matt and Adamczyk in lunch, a time when you didn't say anything Robert. Don't tell me I'm not dedicated to the band when I did more in an attempt to keep it together than you ever did. What made me change my mind later? The truth. I gradually began hearing about all the things they do that we don't hear about, and as that happened I gradually began defending them less. Now, I don't even bother. The band isn't worth keeping together, because all it does is make a terrible person like Mote look good.
I love band more than anyone. I've done more for the band than most kids, including you Robert. I wouldn't leave it unless I was convinced there is no hope, and I'm just about there. I've lost all faith in Mote's ability to do the right thing for the band instead of what's better for him. Every decision that man has made was made for him, not us. You guys may not be able to see that yet, but take a few steps back and look at the big picture. He's a self-serving person.
What do you guys love about band? The music? You can play music anywhere. The kids? We don't need band as an excuse to get together. The power? Leadership has no real power. Band is great, and I love it, but Mote is dismantling all the things we love about it. We barely ever play music, kids are quitting, and leadership has to ask Mote to do just about anything.
Band may still have some hope, and if we're going to try to change anything, I'm willing to help, but don't expect some miracle. It just wont happen. Parents have been complaining to Mote and to Dunnavant about Mote for decades. I doubt things will change much now. Mote just dismisses it as whiney parents and whiney kids, no matter what they're saying.
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Post by Duke Nukem on Aug 31, 2008 11:25:23 GMT -5
Everyone knows that the leadership try-outs were bull shit. There's no arguing that.
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Post by wolvy on Aug 31, 2008 12:44:07 GMT -5
I am not going to do this with you, Lucco. I knew the entire time during the math-science thing you were just being a prick to make other people mad. Just like the Buddhism thing. If you really wanted to be a Buddhist, I would have had no problem, but the fact that you only pretended to be one just to anger Christian students is an example of why I do not respect you. If you really wanted to make a point, you should have made them understand Buddhism and not just let them get angry and laugh at it. You constantly try and make yourself appear superior so you can let everyone know "I am the best. Yea, look at me because I am a walking god." The main reason I do not respect you is that every time I think you have changed, you prove to me you still have resent. When I try and correct your conducting in sectionals, it is so you can be a better musician. If Ryan/Hunter/anyone was leading our section and they were conducting wrongly, I would try and fix them for the benefit of our musicianship. I am not like you, I do not want to be venomous and have this problem go on forever, but it seems like you sometimes would rather we not fix the problem. Maybe we just do not understand each other, I do not know, but this cannot continue. We have to make a compromise and stop this.
Let's compare you to Ryan Oglesby, whom I respect very much. When Ryan became second to last chair last year, did he badmouth anyone or complain? No, he just practiced exceptionally hard and proved his worth. Ryan never compromises his dignity and lives by such amazing standards he just has to be revered.
Another thing, you said you will never be drum major because of their opinions of you. If you prove you deserve it more than anyone else, the band will support you to get what is deserved. Everyone, think about this: if any teacher asked their students "What do you think of this student and should they be blah blah blah?", what would people say?
I do not want to be Drum Major. I think it would be interesting, but I know Conner really wants to amongst others, all of whom I am sure are more qualified and willing.
I never said anything during lunch because I wanted to get a better picture by hearing both sides, for the issue was and still is incredibly complex and cannot be determined by stupid lunch conversation.
I guess you are not stubborn but arrogant. "I love the band more than anyone else...and I;ve done more than all of you." Are you kidding me? Love for the band should not be something you should flaunt in front of people "Haha, I love the band more than all of you, so my opinion is the one that counts."
Why should the band not be good? Our worth will only prove how excellent we are, not only make some good impression of Mr. Mote. Another thing, how can you say everything Mr. Roman and Mote said was idiotic? Ask any leader that was there, and although they will not agree with everything as all humans that aren't sheep should, they will say that their message of the leaders stepping up was well spoken. Our Leadership is only useless when we do not use it effectively, when we fail to prove and fix.
Lucco, I want to resolve this, but we all have to make compromises. We cannot all get our way. I know the Plan will need major revision once everyone is included and gives their 2 cents, but that is what it will take for success.
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Post by Justice Bringer on Aug 31, 2008 13:34:50 GMT -5
ok lets stop this internal struggle now and get down to buisness
the one thing that we have that mr. mote doesnt, our trump card
is our parents
our parents are one of the essential things that keep the band going, they hold alot of weight with mote
all of us quiting will solve nothing but if mote knows that we could easily keep the band going without him then he might be more willing to listen
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Post by BBQ on Aug 31, 2008 13:37:17 GMT -5
You guys arguing about each other's faults isn't going to prove anything.
Face the facts. Lucco is arrogant and stubborn. Robert is Ghandi and needs to look at the picture as a whole. All you guys are doing are hurting each other, and eventually people are going to side with Lucco or side with Robert, and that's not what we want in a band. This discussion has started off with a plan to approach Mote (well actually Lucco asking for respect - post 1, but that's beside the point) and to think of ways to help the band. Now this has just ended up with you two flaming each other. All it's going to do is cause you two to think things of hatred whenever you see each other.
I kindly ask you guys to put out the flames, but if any of you have any last words, speak them and then we get back to the true purpose of this discussion.
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Mizagium
Story Master
Judge. Jury. Executioner.
Posts: 2,798
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Post by Mizagium on Aug 31, 2008 13:39:21 GMT -5
Well said Justin. If more than just one child's parents complain to Dunnavant with same or similar problems, eventually he will have to address the problem.
If you plan on using that as a trump card, you have to get your parents' stories straight. They have to have real complaints. And those complaints have to be the same or nearly the same.
Don't confuse my words now, I don't think you should fabricate a problem, but if you all have the same problem, then Dunnavant will HAVE to listen to three or four (or more) sets or parents.
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Post by BBQ on Aug 31, 2008 13:40:16 GMT -5
ok lets stop this internal struggle now and get down to buisness the one thing that we have that mr. mote doesnt, our trump card is our parents our parents are one of the essential things that keep the band going, they hold alot of weight with mote all of us quiting will solve nothing but if mote knows that we could easily keep the band going without him then he might be more willing to listen I know for one thing that parents won't make a difference to Mote. He has dealt with hundreds of parents and knows how to manipulate them. Besides, the parents don't see the facts the same way we do. Like I said, I know for a fact that Mote will shrug off any parents' remarks. |
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Post by BBQ on Aug 31, 2008 13:43:54 GMT -5
We need to outline the things we find wrong with the band program. We can't come up to Mote without a clear consensus on what's wrong.
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Post by Duke Nukem on Aug 31, 2008 13:44:35 GMT -5
One again, wrong. Flaunt my love of the band? Are you kidding me? No, I'm not that stupid. I'm aware that the things I'm saying make it look like I hate the band as much as Matt Porter did, so I'm making it clear that I love band. And yes, it is true that I have done more for the band than most people. I've stayed after school multiple times to help people with their music, usually Derrick, and it's shown. Don't tell me I'm full of it, because I have the facts to back it up.
You don't really get it, do you? I'm not spiteful, I don't really hold grudges, and I'm definitely not venemous. If that was true, I'd be a very sad person absorbed in his own pathetic quest for vengeance and self-satisfaction. I'm not that person, and I don't appreciate being defined as such.
I could honestly care less if you respect me. I'm not about to bend to your expectations of how I should act, but then again, I don't like your criticisms either. I'm not bent on being superior to everyone else. If I really wanted that, I would probably put effort towards that end, would I not? Don't get me wrong, I do have an ego, but it doesn't lead me on a quest to establish myself as utterly superior to everyone. I'm aware of my character flaws, probaly more so than you.
As for my little "Buddhist Experiment," that was for nobody's benefit but my own. I just wanted to see exactly how "tolerant" people were, and found it funny how they weren't. People have a tendency to not know themselves as well as they think they do.
Robert, don't make this personal, because I'm not in the mood to start analyzing people. This isn't about your opinion of me, so don't make it about me. I'm talking about band here, and you just want to vent your frustration towards me and my actions. I don't need your approval, but I don't need your scorn either. Keep it to yourself.
By the way, that last post wasn't very Ghandi-like on your part.
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Post by Justice Bringer on Aug 31, 2008 13:44:41 GMT -5
ok lets stop this internal struggle now and get down to buisness the one thing that we have that mr. mote doesnt, our trump card is our parents our parents are one of the essential things that keep the band going, they hold alot of weight with mote all of us quiting will solve nothing but if mote knows that we could easily keep the band going without him then he might be more willing to listen I know for one thing that parents won't make a difference to Mote. He has dealt with hundreds of parents and knows how to manipulate them. Besides, the parents don't see the facts the same way we do. Like I said, I know for a fact that Mote will shrug off any parents' remarks. if it ever comes down to it we could all quit marching band and then form a community marching band and ask dunavent if we could play at all etowahs games please make a note that the previous statement is ONLY a raw idea |
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Post by Duke Nukem on Aug 31, 2008 13:46:15 GMT -5
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, JUSTIN. YOU GO, GIRL...BOY. YEAH.
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Post by Justice Bringer on Aug 31, 2008 13:46:54 GMT -5
one more time i just want to stress that what ever we do it has to be together, the most powerful thing in the world is numbers
you can get away with murder if a large enough group does it
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Mizagium
Story Master
Judge. Jury. Executioner.
Posts: 2,798
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Post by Mizagium on Aug 31, 2008 13:46:55 GMT -5
That's...no. I won't insult it.
But Dunnavant would say no.
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Post by Duke Nukem on Aug 31, 2008 13:50:26 GMT -5
By the way, I'm aware that there is a difference between ass-kissing and respect (Josh isn't), but I'm not willing to respect a man who only gets my name right half the time.
Having your parents talk to Mote accomplishes nothing. He shrugs it off as parents "spoiling their kids." I know that for a fact because I HEARD HIM SAY IT. The only hope of reaching him - and that's a small hope - is to talk to him ourselves. I'll talk to him myself if you guys decide not to do it, but I don't think it matters if you do it in a group or individually. Each strategy has it's benefits. If you go individually, Mote is less likely to misconstrue it as the kids trying to overthrow him. If you go as a group, you guys will be less likely to chicken out and Mote will be more inclined to hear you out.
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Post by Justice Bringer on Aug 31, 2008 13:50:52 GMT -5
That's...no. I won't insult it. But Dunnavant would say no. no he wouldnt, because the school would look like a fool without a marching band. and he doesnt want to look bad plus if we did have his approval then since everything belongs to the SCHOOL then we would still have everything that we do now |
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Post by Duke Nukem on Aug 31, 2008 13:51:56 GMT -5
I have my doubts about any of you standing up to Mote alone. If you aren't careful, he'll basically bite your heads off.
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Mizagium
Story Master
Judge. Jury. Executioner.
Posts: 2,798
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Post by Mizagium on Aug 31, 2008 13:52:01 GMT -5
But you could'nt get EVERY SINGLE PERSON to drop out of band, it just wont happen.
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